How To Become A Professional Speaker Ep05 with Eric Termuende

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Eric Termuende is the co-founder of NoW Innovations, a bestselling author, and an international speaker.

His work has been featured in Forbes, Inc., Thrive Global, the Huffington Post, Globe and Mail, and elsewhere. Termuende was recognized as a Top 100 Emerging Innovator under 35 globally by American Express, is a TEDx speaker, and represented Canada at the G20 Summit.

Eric is a thought leader on optimizing workplace culture, the future of work, and engagement in the workplace. He provides key actionable takeaways on how companies can drive engagement through connection and trust. Eric dispels generational groupings to re-humanize and gain more out of the workforce. Having given nearly 200 presentations, he goes beyond diversity and inclusion to help audiences understand people and patterns in order to optimize the workplace. His new bestselling book, Rethink Work is available on

Get in touch with Eric Termuende, click on the links below.

Victor Ahipene: Speaking nation, what’s out, what’s happening in welcome to another episode of the public speaking secrets podcast. I’m your host and today we are lucky enough some of you know, I used to run another podcast called the youngpreneurs podcasts and a couple of my guests, I have seen that a, yeah, that’s been really successful in the speaking industry or the been able to transition the expertise from that into, uh, you know, speaking in it, speaking kind of place, this nice ecosystem back into their business. And there was none bitter then one of my past gear. So we actually chatted a few times. Eric to mandates is the co-founder of now innovation, a bestselling author. He’s been featured in the Julian things and he is now really hitting up the speaking world. Welcome back. Also the catch up again, Eric. Yeah.


Eric Termuende: Hey Man. Thank you. Thank you for having me. It’s good to get to see where you’re at now too and just see how things have progressed. I mean, in this, in this global community that we live in, it’s a, it’s really fun. I mean, we’ve never met in person yet. We’ve been connected for a few years now, you know, so it’s all the sort of at arm’s reach, watch, watch how everyone’s growing and developing and you’re no exception.


Victor Ahipene: Yeah, it’s a crazy, crazy world because I mean, yeah, I lived in, I lived in Canada, got to know rob by, by, by coaching his rugby theme and then he put me onto you. You said you’re the, you’re the person I should be talking to, and then you had a capital of us. How confused he was even even from then it was, yeah, I think you’re my first guest that had spoken at a tedx event. Net kind of sparked my fire to do that and take that off after that. And um, yeah. So let’s see. Let’s see what we can bring out this time if we were to give people a bit of. Okay, kind of a bit of a background about what now innovations is, what, what you’ve done and then kind of how you’ve been able to, the transition from being kind of the business owner to business owner slash speaker. How, how has that kind of come about?


Eric Termuende: Yeah, sure. So now is an acronym for the now of work there. There’s a lot of rhetoric around the future of work and get it like it’s coming. No doubt it’ll always be coming and I think sometimes we get so lost thinking too far ahead that we don’t really consider but what we need to be doing now. Uh, and so when we look at now innovations is how do we help innovate within organizations so they can really what we would call future proof their organization or be more future ready. So we’re talking a lot of change management. We’re talking about people and culture work. We built an assessment, we’re calling the lived experience analysis, you know, another helix assessment, which we call that the helix because it’s the DNA of an organization. And then my cofounder, Rocky Ozaki, he leads our implementation and execution with our clients and he does a lot of design thinking implementation. He does a lot of sprint and ok implementation. And really what that comes down to is to say, okay, look in a world that’s busier than it’s ever been before, how do we get people talking? How do we utilize the best tools? How are we making sure that we’re taking collaboration, agility, innovation? We’re talking about transparency, authenticity. So many of these words are just empty buzzwords that people like to throw around because they sound good. What we’re rocking, I really doing is it’s taking these words, putting meaning behind them and actually implementing them in organization in a measurable way. Right? And that’s, that’s the big thing that’s missing I think in human resources is that when we look at hr primarily, it’s a cost center we spend on people, you know, we spend, we spend, we, we don’t invest in them, and the big difference between spending and investing is if you were to buy a pair of shoes, you just bought a pair of shoes, you didn’t really invest in a pair of shoes. If you were to buy a pair of shoes and then measure how many times he wore those pair of shoes for the $150 that you spent on them, then it’s an investment because you get to see sort of what the return per use was with the cost per use was. And we think that if we can start to analyze people in culture and you know, the future of work and innovation in the workplace, then we can shift the whole mindset of human resources to be something that’s reactive largely to something that’s proactive. So, you know, on the speaking side of things, the shift for me has been to say, okay, look, how do we try and understand the world that’s busier than it’s ever been before? Digital components like artificial intelligence, the Internet of things, block chain while we’re still considering, you know, human centricity, a sense of belonging, a sense of tribe, a sense of community. So really I’m at the intersection of technology and humanity I think is really what it comes down to. And organizations often will bring me in when they’re saying, okay, well how do we attract and retain the right talent in a world that’s busier than it’s ever been before? How do we understand how we can get the most out of our people so that when they’re at work, they’re there because they want to be there and not because they have to be there? And so for the company, I’ve become the evangelists, I suppose, of this whole future of worker now or concept and my business partner and the people that we work with largely are working on the implementation side of things.


Victor Ahipene: That’s the, one of the hardest things that I spoke to a guy who, uh, Josh Smith who runs vents and Phil’s events for people and he said it’s, it’s really difficult for them that they’re very selective and a, the speakers that they get because there’s going to have the back end systems behind being able to be a speaker. Like just the speaking side of things if they’ve got this business. Yes, they’re gonna, they’re gonna connect with people that probably subject matter experts, but they’ve got to have the ability to handle all the new business or the business and things that they’re going to generate. And it sounds like you, you’re, you’re kind of the forward facing person. You’re the, the, the, the one who goes out and represents the business. And then you’ve got to have someone behind the scenes is actually going to deliver on anything outside of gesture talks. Uh, and is, is it a good mix? What is that? Is that, is that how I’m reading it, right?


Eric Termuende: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, here, here’s what I’ve learned. I mean, uh, I think I’ve been on 200 stages now. Speaking is an art in itself which is, which is great, and the business behind speaking is something that I totally underestimated and not in a bad way at all. I just didn’t understand the positioning, play the marketing, play, the PR play. Like you said, the after this talk play, what happens if it’s nothing was going to be really hard to continue on when you’ve got potentially 500 people in the room, that’s 500 potential leads and now it’s not about selling from the stage necessarily and trying to drive business, business, business and always selling, selling, selling. As someone at the front of the stage you want to give, I hate this term, but just you want to, you want to give value, know where you want to do is you want to give a compelling presentation that gives people something to think about and something to act on. That’s really what it comes down to. If that’s true, then there’s value there and that that’s all well and good and to be a great speaker, undoubtedly you have to have a fantastic presentation and that’s something I’m working on now and will be for the rest of my life. You know, the, the, the beauty and you know, the blessing and the curse of being a speaker is that there’s no finish line, right? Like you’ve never made it or you already have, you know, like, I’ve, I’m building my career and have my full time job as speaking. Arguably I’ve made it. And if you guess anyone else in my shoes who have just done this, we’ll say that we’re just getting started. And uh, because there is no finish line, the, it’s, it’s fun because I’ve always got something to chase. I can always be better. I can always read an audience better. I can always have more relevant information. I could always thread and weave a story better. And uh, that’s, that’s really what I love about him most because I’ll just say quickly too, and I spoke at a last month. I spoke at a land surveying conference hotels conference, a forestry conference and innovation conference in a real estate conference like man, the message, while it might be the same, the art behind delivering a similar message to people with totally different backgrounds, totally different industry, and totally different set of knowledge. That’s, that’s where the fun part comes because then I get to be so much more well-versed in other industries that I’m, you know, I’m not familiar with land surveying per se. Yeah. But I can tell you I learned a whole lot about it before, during, and after the presentation.


Victor Ahipene: Yeah. The next time you do anything near that space, you’re going to, like you said, read the audience better, be more irrelevant embitter information. And a lot of what you were saying, yeah, it’s not all about sales, sales, sales, but it’s, it’s not about sales as well, right?

Eric Termuende: The thing is, if you really focus on not selling and you focus on giving a compelling presentation best that you can do is to deliver a good talk that doesn’t sell anything, which is sort of ironic I suppose, but…


Victor Ahipene: I, um, I have to go, I crafted a talk for a, a, a dental business owners talk and uh, yeah, he closed six figures and he wasn’t allowed to sell from stage.


Eric Termuende: Yeah, perfect example.


Victor Ahipene: Yeah. And I mean, it was, it was all about just creating that compelling narrative. It was like, here’s how you can do your marketing for your business. Here’s the pitfalls to look out for, here’s some awesome social proof on, on how you, on how I helped the dude who ran this business, uh, this, this event, do it for his businesses. And then at the end of it, it’s like, look, and these are the things you should look out for. Here’s how to do Google ads. Here’s how to do Facebook ads, here’s how to do SEO. Yeah. A very brief overview and it’s all incredibly difficult and this is what you should look out for when you’re looking for a, a digital marketer. So Rania stuff and little who’s the logical option when you’re at an event in da ever. Everyone rushed to the back to try and get a strategy session with them and he didn’t even pitch that. They all knew that has his booth was at the back and give, give, give. And there was no kind of deal stack at the end or anything like that. And people loved it.


Eric Termuende: Such a perfect example and to, you know, these people will want that speaker to come back to their organizations as well, you know, and for forget the implementation side, just on the thought leadership and, and uh, and speaking side, I mean, it’s great to.


Victor Ahipene: And so run us through how you’ve gone from, you know, being in the trenches in your business to transitioning to the speaker side of things like, uh, was it from getting smaller gigs and working your way out?


Eric Termuende: I work with to get you these six or seven now, which is great, you know, and that’s a big focus because when you can have other teams helped get the word out, a lot of it ‘s positioning, right? I mean, um, when I, when, when we first started a backstory, we built a tool that quantified culture within organizations and so say victor, you and I are both accountants. We might have a similar skill set by the time an accountant at a golf course. You’re an accountant for the government, you know, while our jobs might be very similar to the life that we live is vastly different, right? And so if we could quantify those differences and put them in numbers and now we can tell a better story to attract a better candidate. Now that’s, that’s pretty interesting to companies, especially when you’re looking at certain sectors who are trying to differentiate and who are trying to attract talents. I mean, here in Canada, um, organizations in forestry, agriculture, mining, transportation, construction, a peril are having a tough time attracting talent. I mean, it’s, no doubt it’s, it’s really difficult to Instagram your job and so when you’re talking about old traditional sectors, and so the misconception is that you can’t attract the next generation of talent. Now, if we can start talking about something bigger than just the work itself and the meaning and the purpose behind it and the life that you get to live. I mean, not everyone wants to be on 90 flights a year is on 90 flights last year. I’ll probably be on 100 this year. Not many people want that, you know, uh, maybe, maybe, maybe family is really important. Maybe the, maybe staying at home and having routine and stability and security is really important. I think the number is about 15 percent of us are cut out to be entrepreneurs, yet we still glorify and glamorize entrepreneurship. Like it’s something we should all do. I firmly disagree. And so if I can come in based on our analysis that we’ve done in the past and start to say, hey, look, here’s some things that we should really be considering and here’s how we can look at the future of work. And attracting and retaining talent, the story is totally different. And so from the results that we had from our initial work, we’ve worked in forestry and finance. Uh, we worked with government, with our apparel. Uh, I started speaking at industry conferences based on the work that we did and people found that quite interesting. So, you know, I had 40 events that I’d done before getting signed, ultimately got signed by my, my beloved National Speakers Bureau had talked to them. I love them so much. They, they ultimately made me who I am today on the speaking circuit and took a chance on a young kid he wanted to, to, to public speak. And since then I think I’ve done yet 200 events now and uh, and really sort of phased out of the consulting side into the speaking, I’ve found something that, that I love doing something that I had a thought was a real challenge and, and something that I felt that could chase.


Victor Ahipene: And with that. So you’ve gone, um, would those first 40 events, would they, you reaching out to people, people reaching out to you? What did the. Yeah, the toing and froing in the negotiation process look like because I mean I spoke to a guy, Nick Bowditch and he just literally has a speaking fee on his website, has traveled like he. He’s like, I’m one of the few that will just throw it out and he’s represented by bureaus as well. It’s just like a non-negotiable type speaker, but for the most part you know you’re getting invited to a 50 person event, you’re getting invited to a 400 person event and there’s only so much of a budget it can go to what? How did it look for you then versus how does the negotiation and stuff happen now with, with some bureaus representing you?


Eric Termuende: The thing is exposure is, is really important for bureaus and the other thing is they don’t build speakers, they sell speakers, and so if you can prove yourself to be profitable for them and that you’re generating dollars, that’s what they need. Now the question is how do you get that first paid gig? Well, I think my first paid gig was $250. The second one was probably the same. The third one was maybe $500 and a. What happened when in the early days is. Well, I still, I mean first and foremost, most important where I’ll get into what that is, is in the early days said, okay, look, I’ll do this if we film it a, if you like it, it would be great to have a testimonial from you were talking two or three lines, nothing super significant and a, an introduction to, to people who you think this presentation would land well with. Right? And so you know, if you’re vetted by somebody, you know, victor, if you told one of your pals or one of your conference organizers that I’m a good speaker, that I should come and speak, it’s going to sound a heck of a lot better than if I go to submit my speaker proposal with my media kit and say all the same things that every other speaker is saying. Right? So the question is, is how do you leverage other people’s network and getting them to say, hey look, you know, Eric’s a great speaker. You think you’d be a great, why don’t you write your event, why don’t you have a quick call with them and see what you think. And so it takes time. You know, the, the line that I’ve heard time and time again is that an overnight success takes a thousand days. And uh, I’ve been speaking since I guess signed November Twenty 15, so I’m not even three years in and if you look at the numbers on that three years is 9,080 days, right? So I’m not even at a thousand days yet on professionally speaking. And then like I said, I’m just getting started like, holy, there’s so much to learn around the business and the speaking and the story flow and everything else that it’s going to be well over another thousand days before, uh, making it. And when I get there I can pretty much be sure that when we jump on our next podcast, again, I’ll tell you that, uh, just getting started all over again.


Victor Ahipene: With the business side once. What’s the biggest thing that you have that kind of open your eyes or the biggest learning point that you’ve, you’ve changed to implement it into your speaking business since you’ve kind of been going, going at it balls to the wall this year.


Eric Termuende: Case studies are so important. You know, we worked with a dentist for example, and we haven’t heard from Vance’s. Maybe I’ll use, we worked with the construction company and they’re having a difficult time onboarding clients and so what we did is we did blah blah blah blah blah and we use this as a story and it’s real and it’s ours and I didn’t read it in Forbes and I didn’t do some sort of Peer Review Journal. This is what happened. This is a real issue. This is what they came to us with. This is how we solve that and this is what the impact of solving that was. I mean, men, when we’re working with clients and anyone on the marketing side of things, on the sales side of things, whatever, on the leadership side of things, especially if you’ve got a business that you’re running on the side or if you’ve got people that are helping you with that, telling those stories on stage and a relatable way where whoever’s listening and be like, Oh yeah, we have that problem too. Oh, that’s what they did. Oh, what the result was. Oh, I had no idea of value, value, value. It’s all there. The other thing is the work that my co-founder does is he is great. Number one, he’s really good at it, enjoys it, and I don’t, you know, straight out, I do not enjoy doing the work that he does, which is phenomenal. So I mean, I would say when you’re looking on the business side, find a cofounder and a team that does not have the same skills as you, that have the same goal and they want to have the same outcome. Sure, but the. But if they’re doing the same thing as you and want to do the same thing and you’ve got two people butting heads that are fighting over nothing, uh, it doesn’t work. I mean, I’m on the vision to execution scale. I’m 95 percent vision, five percent execution and my business partner, I got to give him more credit than me. He’s probably 70 percent execution and 30 percent vision. And uh, to know that I will say like, Hey, what do you think about this? And he gets it because he thinks that that level. And I said, okay, well now what does this look like? He’s like, okay, I got it. And then just start scratching stuff down. Whiteboard stuff comes up with something really cool. I’m like, yeah, this is my vision executed or our vision executed in it. It works really well.


Victor Ahipene: That’s awesome. With your speaking side of things, how you kind of touched on it, like using the real life examples and stories, because obviously stories are so important. I spoke to David Nye Hill who’s the author of do speak funny and it’s a really, really good humorous book. How much humor do you bring into your talks and in different industries, side of things?


Eric Termuende: My girlfriend will tell you that I use a lot of dad jokes on stage a, which is just like inherently lane. And I think that’s kind of it. I’m more self-deprecating. I can talk about this narcissistic job hopping, not loyal basement dwelling, Xbox playing generation. Of course I’m referring to the millennials. Uh, and, and people will know who I’m talking about before I get to the fourth word. I often say that, um, that, you know, there’s 400 hours of video content that’s uploaded on YouTube and I mean, it’s no wonder none of my staff gets viewed. Right. And so, you know, the more I can shoot myself in the foot and people were like, yeah, obviously you’re. Yeah, me too. Um, then to me it’s more of a, how do you have a relatable, relatable comment that people can latch onto. One other thing I’ll say though too, is that what I’m trying to watch most or study is not Gary Vaynerchuk or Tony Robbins or Oprah or Simon Sinek. I mean, the way that I see it as is thought leadership doesn’t exist anymore. Anything that Tony or assignments said before Oprah said before, you’re like, yeah, I mean, I get it. It’s very inspirational, but the reason I think they do so well now is because while thought leadership might not exist anymore, delivery leadership does and the way they command the stage and the way they deliver their material is again, an art in and of its own. And I’ll take that one step further by saying what I’m watching now is, is comedians, comedians delivery. Oh, it’s impeccable, man. It’s, it’s unbelievable to see how seemingly unscripted their material is for an hour so much. That seems off the cuff. It’s really not so much. That seems so real. And so for the first time and spontaneous it’s not. And that’s. No, obviously no slight there. That’s their profession and it is really number one funny. But uh, they’re, they’re just so good at what they do that I think that I as a, as a speaker can learn more from a comedian’s delivery while still preserving my own thought on the, on the topic. That doesn’t mean I’m trying to be funnier. I just think that, you know, what they often do too is they’ll start and its storyline, right? So last night I was in la and thought about, you know, and then from there that’s where their storylines starts and now we’ve in and out of that story arc and come back to it later and half of what makes a comedian funny is that they’ll come back to something you don’t even remember them talking about. Oh yeah, that’s what he or she was talking about. I totally forgot. And that’s what’s humorous about that. So if I can take thought leadership more of a deep TedX style, a presentation, and still weave a story arc and I might come and talk about generations and then I might talk about technology. And then really what I’m talking about is a sense of belonging and human centricity. And the more you can weave back into something that you hadn’t connected the dots on before, uh, I think the more compelling, at least in my space I could be. So again, there’s no right style when they’re speaking. There’s no one right way of doing it. I think the better we understand ourselves, the better we can be on stage too.


Victor Ahipene: And I think one of the, one of the big things with not just humor but speaking in general, but what comedians do really well as a listener. So I listened to the show or listener on stage or, or whatever they are trying to connect the dots in answer what you were about to talk about for the next five sentences. But a comedian doesn’t let you do that because the type that controlling the narrative really well. Right? And you’re like, oh, I think I know what’s going to happen. And then whatever happened, you know, when it’s a very blatant I know happens and then it happens. Your brain’s like, oh, okay. Well I was expecting that and that’s what happened. Whereas. And it doesn’t get as much of a laugh. It’s like, oh.


Eric Termuende: The element of surprise in that sense is great. There’s also one other trick that I just sort of learned recently. And um, yeah, I’ll tell you what happened. What happened was, is the guy said, I’m going to tell you what happened and then pause and then immediately you’re like, this is awkward, what happened? And then he said, and what happened was, and they kind of get got into it and I remember him, I was on the call with them and he was a lifetime of speaker, like really good to really well. And I remember four or five times he said, and let me tell you what happened. What happened was. And I’m sitting there on the other side of the phone for all like one and a half seconds being like, what happened? Like tell me what happened? And I’m like so hooked to figure out what happened that I’m still engaged in whatever the story is. And so pausing and breathing, you know, one of the biggest faults that I’m always working towards right now is saying more with less, you know, and, and pausing and taking that time for things to sink in. And Hoy is a work in progress. I’m nowhere near where I want it to be yet. But the more you can draw people in with silence, the power of silence is just crazy. And it was just starting to learn that. And I think, I think a lot of those.


Victor Ahipene: And I think, I think a lot of those. And here’s what happened. Like those copywriters, uh, things to, to hope to. It’s like, so here’s the thing, here’s the thing. And people were like, oh, what’s the, what’s the thing? The thing, it’s like, it’s almost like a, yeah, it’s a brilliant way to transition to, to the point, but it’s also another way to reengage your audience’s brain. When they start, they start dropping off and, oh, but here’s the thing, here’s the thing, here’s one.


Eric Termuende: Yeah man. The thing is you can’t, you can’t just do it either. You have to do it well because people, they know that that’s a trick, you know, and you don’t want to be tricked. And so they’re like delivery again, thought leadership versus delivery, leadership, delivery. Leadership is. I mean, even I can come up with 100 thoughts. Lockers that was in a room for a weekend. We can write a book, right? I mean, that’s, that’s fine. And you and I can come up with a whole bunch of different ideas now putting them together with a compelling story. I mean, I, my book came out last year as, as, as you know, and the writing took half the time, does the editing half the time and then it took another couple months to get out to, to, to the, to the world. And uh, yeah, I mean, you and I can write a book this weekend if we want it to and then to, you know, reading a book that reads well and that’s compelling man. That’s, that’s totally, totally different.


Victor Ahipene: Yeah. I’ve got to figure out where comma goes in the sentence before eight, but on, on that point, how has having a book or how has this book helped you’re speaking or when you’re at events, having that, having that book from a social proof standpoint or from a business generation standpoint, is it or not at all?


Eric Termuende: I mean, it has and it has quite a bit. Uh, I’m pausing because there’s no. What works for me might not work for somebody else. I mean, I’m a first time author, right? I took a, I chose a boutique publisher in Toronto Barlow Books. It was a fantastic experience that said I’m dealing with the Canadian market, right? I’m not even in the states at all. I mean, you can get the kindle version and that’s great. The market in Canada is, you know, you know, in the southern hemisphere is not huge. Uh, and, and, and that’s, it is what it is. What I’ll say is that the, I made money in the book. Not a ton. I mean, very, very small amount, which is fine in full transparency. But what happened is I got a ton of media that came along with the book of Forbes, a lot of our national media on national radio, national news, ink thrive, Huffington Post, on and on and on and on. And that’s what I now use in my biography. That’s what I use on my website. That’s what I use at my speaking real because now what happened is they’ve validated the thoughts that I’ve got in my book. I mean the national news male, the title was what does this 24 year old know about work? It turns out quite a bit and to get support on a national level like that from unbiased people who are critics a. Now all of a sudden when I go to get a speaking Gig, I can say, you know, the goal mail, Sirius Xm, Forbes, they could get. They like what I have to say. This will now de risk you hiring me and what I found, whether you’re selling a marketing product or you’re selling a speaking speaker, if you can direct the buyer, so the person who’s signing your contract, if you can direct, ask yourself from that person and immediately make them look as good as possible and have their boss tapped him on the back and say, you know, great choice before even I hit the stage. Great. You know, and that makes it a lot easier to be chosen. I think that’s why a lot of speakers have a tough time getting into it because there’s nothing that’s validated. You. People have to take a risk and when the speaking space is so competitive and there’s so many people in it and there were so many great people doing it, why would I take a risk for 500 people in front of 500 people bringing this kid who doesn’t know what he’s talking about when I can get a seasoned veteran for the same price and go from there. And so what I would say, it’s anyone who’s starting out is get other people to you as frequently and as powerfully as possible, and then you de-risked yourself from anyone else who’s trying to from anyone who’s booking you.


Victor Ahipene: And I think that’s a brilliant point. I did a solo episode on just building, building your social proof, you know, whether it’s a book, whether it’s running a podcast, getting the media, using it as an ecosystem to, oh, you know, build up themselves, whether it’s doing other speaking gigs because like qualifications, qualifications in the end, that’s never going to Alicia, Alicia speaking in your industry, have a university degree, you’re a doctor and you’re like, you’re a doctorate of physio therapy. Then yeah, people will sign you to speak because they want you to speak off your research. But if you’re, you know, if you’re doing other things, yeah. If you’re a business builder for Physios, different story. Yeah. Having a doctorate, and running isn’t going to teach people how to, how to do businesses. But yeah, the book, the podcast that the speaking engagements that you’ve previously done, testimonials and, and the media is the, is the biggest one to give you that social proof to direct Scala. I love that word. Like I’m going to, it’s probably going to be frequently a years now within the weather. I’ll reference to where I can, but it’s all yours. It’s a, a, a brilliant thing for, for people to take into consideration. It’s like all these little nuances behind the scenes from, from speakers who are out there doing it in the trenches and given you, given you advice, not the, uh, not the advice that I’ve heard from someone. So thank you so much for that. I love out outside of your book, which will link at What is the biggest book that’s maybe had a, had an impact either on your business or your speaking side of things?


Eric Termuende: Easiest, easiest to answer that. On the business side, um, is a book called small giants by Bo Burlingham. Um, it talks a lot. Do you guys have cliff bars?


Victor Ahipene: Uh, yes, yes, yes.


Eric Termuende: So cliff bar, I mean, the quick story is cliff bar there, there, there, that’s it. That’s the only product they have is cliff bar. And they were approached by Pepsi or Quaker, you know, the big giants to be bought out. And uh, there’s a few case studies of crap breweries and small firms and stuff that had done really well. And what they decided is they’ve got, I think was like 150 employees. They’ve got to make x dollars a year. They’re on a growth trajectory. And they said, hey look, we like who we work with. We liked the life that we’re living, we liked the product that we’ve got. We’re not going to sell out to the big company and be another cog in the wheel. And really that shifted me from thinking I don’t want to be another major, 2000 person consulting company that gets acquired and grows and grows and grows NGOs public and all this stuff. And like I, I really liked the life that I’m living. I liked the trajectory we’re on. I liked the growth. And so to me, the shift from that book was its quality, not quantity in terms of staff and, and titles and stuff like that. You know what I mean? If we can define success and what it means on our own terms, you know, we can be a small giant. Is it really what it comes down to?


Victor Ahipene: Awesome. Well I just want to welcome you to our speaking nation and thank you for being on the public speaking secrets podcast. As always, it’s just sweet chatting to you. If people want to hear more about your journey from, from the business side of things, jump over to the youngpreneurs podcasts on iTunes and have a listen there. But again, I might have to do that too. It’s like, Oh wow, I was doing that and this is where I was going. Oh, that’s interesting. If people want to connect more with you, find out, well what your business is up to and things like that. Where can they go? What can they do?


Eric Termuende: Yeah, check out to LinkedIn as my primary platform, um, ratio. Say Hi, we’d love to chat. And um, my personal website, if you’re interested in the book or the speaking or anything else that’s just a first name, last, I’m sure you’ll see it on the episode, so I don’t know how to spell it Awesome. Well thanks again and look forward to look forward to our next future. Chet, I’m looking forward to it, man. Take care.


Victor Ahipene: Awesome. Well thanks again and look forward to look forward to our next future. Chet, I’m looking forward to it, man. Take care.