Victor Ahipene: Speaking nation. Welcome to another episode of public speaking secrets. Super excited to have you here where I’m probably going to get judged for my lack of vocal tonality cause we’ve got Sally Prosser who is a voice and presentation coach and she’s had a raft of experience across multiple different industries and different ways that we present, which I’m super excited to be able to dive into. So welcome to the show, Sally.
Sally Prosser: Thanks for having me, Victor. Good to be here. Give
Victor Ahipene: everyone a bit of a background, I guess, how did you get to where and what you’re doing now?
Sally Prosser: Well, I’m sure as most people say, how much time do you have? So it could go on from it. But I guess the, in a nutshell, I started out as a speech and drama teacher. So for anyone out there who’s done a Stedford growing up, poetry, prose, that kind of thing. And then I got to a point where I thought, Oh my goodness, if I have one more child come in the door wanting to do a tongue twister, I, you know, don’t think I can continue. So at UNI I studied law actually and also journalism. And I worked as the broadcast news journalist. So I did radio, uh, then moved into the area where you had to blow dry your hair TV unfortunately. Uh, and then I went from news reporting to PR, which is a very, it’s called crossing to the dark side. So the journalists who cross crossover to PR, that’s what they’re called. And I was the spokesperson for Brisbane’s a water and sewerage company. So there you go. The glamour girl for Siri.
Victor Ahipene: Yeah. Does that, does that need lots of spokesperson?
Sally Prosser: Well, you know what they say, if you can sell it, then you can sell anything. Right. Um, and then it was while I was there in the corporate setting that I started to understand how much of a skill public speaking, well, how much it was lacking. Really. A lot of people were struggling to speak up in meetings, struggling to speak in front of people, being asked to be on a panel or speak at a conference and be freaking out, wanting someone else to do it. And so about a couple of years ago I left and I’ve started my own business.
Victor Ahipene: Nice. Do you kind of diving into that aspect on the corporate side, do you find it to particular level that uh, you know, to put it bluntly, like sucks at the presentational fears, the presentation side? Like is it their middle manager person, is that, you know, still happening at the CEO or the C level side of things? Or is it those, you know, people aspiring, cause I’d be interested from someone who’s going to been in there on the ground level seeing it,
Sally Prosser: you know, I saw it at all levels, right? From people who don’t even apply for jobs. If they have to do any sort of speaking, they actually bring up insight. Do I have to do any speaking in this role? And if they say yes, they say, Oh thank you, I’m not applying.
Victor Ahipene: It’s extraordinary. It’s crazy. I mean I worked with someone who was in the air and the like, you know, one of the big four or five or whatever it is, accounting firms. And it was kind of in the middle management space. And then once he improved his presentations, it was like three months later I got a promotion.
Sally Prosser: Absolutely. And that’s one of the main reasons people come to see me because everybody’s starting to realize that no matter what job you do, if you’re not able to speak well and communicate, you’re going to really struggle to shine in that field. And then, yeah, I’ve seen right through to CEOs and board chair people who freak out. I have one client, he’s just such an amazing woman and I’m sure that any meeting that she chairs, everybody is sitting around just hoping to impress her. And she tells me that she feels sick with nerves every time she walks in.
Victor Ahipene: It’s, um, it’s, it’s, it’s really crazy that, not necessarily that they can get to that level, but how yeah. That they’ll surround themselves with amazing people, like who are amazing at different areas. Uh, they’ll work really hard in particular skill sets. And then like that one is the one that they often let down. And I think, you know, obviously there’s all the, we’ll know that there’s the, the fear and everything that I don’t have the gift of the gab, et cetera, et cetera. Um, but yeah, it’s just the, I find it really, really interesting when those top level people and then when they are able to share their message and find their voice and, and go through their, how it kind of amplifies everything. And, you know, I talk about it, I thoroughly believe it’s the way to future proof yourself in a workforce where more and more things are getting automated. There’s still that area where, you know, you want to get out in front of an audience or you want to be able to lead and, and you know, uh, lead your team and lead your company. And as those who have got their ability to communicate that are going to be, yeah, probably the last out the door because yeah. Apart from those with really elite skill sets. But yeah, that’s it.
Sally Prosser: Yeah. I totally agree. I think the, the more and more we’re relying on technology, it’s more important than ever to be able to make that human voice to voice connection.
Victor Ahipene: and so you’ve gone out from on your own since then and uh, you, you obviously help people with both. Yeah. It was kind of all the aspects of what you’ve, you’ve developed from the presentation side of things, from the, uh, the vocal side of things. Obviously it helps understanding that PR and being the spokesperson and that sort of thing from our, I’d love to dive in today into some of the voice side of things because I know, uh, yeah, you can have the, the, the voice for radio and the, and the, the face variety as well. Um, but yeah, you don’t necessarily want to end up like the, you know, the Australian reference, the Wally Lewis on, on the TV who speaks like this. Like he is reading off a teleprompter and he absolutely sucks at it. And I see that even when I can. Yeah. You can sometimes tell on social media or on LinkedIn, on YouTube, people who are still using teleprompters and then not overly natural.Um, you see people who are memorizing things and then they’re having to use two parts of their brain to try and again look natural. And I see it coming in affecting their voice in different ways. And then obviously there’s people who are speaking off the cuff and, and then maybe monotonous in the way that they present. So I don’t think there’s really a question and what I just rambled on about, but when it comes to voice, what are the things that, as, as business owners, as professional speakers as, uh, people looking to present more, what should they be looking at from a vocal side of things to get started?
Sally Prosser: Yeah. It’s interesting that you talk about news rating cause being a news reporter, I work with a lot of broadcast journalists with what I do. And it’s always the same thing. We want to be telling the story, not reading the script. And this is something that happens with people who aren’t too experienced with videos. You see it on social media and you do say it in public as well. I call it a high school awards night syndrome. You know when every single line it sounds like it’s being read and the winner is, and he usually find with the phrasing what’s happening is it’s too many pauses. So when you raid, we take more pauses than we do if we’re just speaking naturally. So that’s one of the things that I work on. If you want to sound natural,
Sally Prosser: the pauses. The second thing we do when we read, and this is how you can tell if people have got a teleprompter or if they’ve really tried to memorize it off a page, is people overdo the little words, which I call grunt words. So the two that have the, from the, Ugh, all of these words should usually come out as to have from
Victor Ahipene: yeah,
Sally Prosser: because they’re all sandwiched in other words. And so, yeah, a lot of the work I do is on getting the phrasing right, making the stars of the show that put important words stand out and the connecting words sit in the background
Victor Ahipene: comes with practice. Of course. Yeah. And I, I mean I think those are the, the big things. Like everything I talk about public speaking, being kind of like riding a bike in the sense that you don’t become a tour de France cyclist from day dot. You become, yeah, you start riding a tricycle or a bike with training wheels or what, you know, whatever it may be. Um, and I have no doubt that it’s the same from a vocal standpoint is Hey, here’s some things I can learn and I can implement. Look, I’m probably not going to get them all right the first time. Like I’m 100% not going to get them all right the first time. Um, do you, you know, I’ve followed different vocal coaches and, and listen to what they’ve had to say over the times. Do you do like a vocal warmups? I’m sure if you’ve been in the speech and drama space, you probably do. Uh, are there certain drills that people can work on, uh, say on a daily basis, even if they’re not presenting, you know, just in front of the mirror or just in the car on the way to work or, uh, when they’re in the shower that can work on your, I guess, your vocal tonality or, uh, trying to have a bit more inflection or a bit more excitement or whatever it may be in their voice.
Sally Prosser: Yeah, absolutely. So I actually have a free one minute warm up people can do. So if you head to my website, which is www dot dot com.edu, you can click on the warm up there and it’s all there for you.
Sally Prosser: The one that I use is called body breath and buzz. It’s the first thing anyone needs to think about before speaking is getting your posture right. Because we are a walking, talking instrument. And in the same way that the first thing you do when you pick up a guitar, when you sit at a piano or anyone who plays musical instrument, you have to hold it correctly. And so all of us can sit our posture up correctly and I say, pretend you’re wearing Victoria’s secret angel wings, right? It’s as soon as you put your wings on your shoulders, we’ll come back and unlock your knees. He rolls through the shoulders. You know, it’s almost like you’re warming up for some kind of sporting activity, stretching the neck. Then you can get the breath in. So the breath is so important for voice because it’s the fuel.
Sally Prosser: Oxygen fuels our voice and it’s one of the main things I see with people. Their voice is affected by their breathing. We think it’s just something that’s really obvious. Oh, how can I be breathing wrong? But breathing is habitual. It’s not actually natural. It’s habits that we formed and a lot of us have formed quite bad habits and we’re breathing far too shallow up inside our lungs. And the white. Now if you’re doing it right, is take a deep breath Dean. And if your shoulders rise, then you’re breathing too shallow. So what you want is wanting to have your hands down your tummy and as you breathe in the tummy spans, it’s not very flattering, but this is how you get the air that you need in order to control the voice that’s down where the diaphragm is. So people might have heard, you know, speaking with the diaphragm, that’s the the power must.
Sally Prosser: So for your voice. So a few deep breaths, just breathing in for one and out for two. So you want to have more on your exhale. That’s a good little want to do. And also good to come nerves before you speak. So you’ve got your body set up, you’ve got the breath coming in. And then the third one and I called buzz and buzz is getting vocal chords to wake up is that vocal chords. It’s so 17 or so muscles in there that had to come together to make a sound. And we know that they aren’t ready to go first thing in the morning because we all have that morning voice. It sounds a bit like this, you know me on a Sunday morning after too much, you know, but too big a Saturday night. So, Oh sorry Victor, we are you right? Is the connection okay?
Victor Ahipene: Yeah, just cut out there. That’s all right. We can, we can eat it. That part.
Sally Prosser: Okay. Uh, let me know if you’d like me to go back a little bit.
Sally Prosser: So then we have, yes, we have bars and we want to wake up our vocal chords and if anyone wants to say something quite disgusting but fascinating, then Google vocal chords while singing it looks like something else. It’s really interesting. Say a vocal chords are like two little chicken wings and we need them to come together nice and strong to get a sound. And the one that I use is count Dracula, which is like, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah. And that brings up my records together and gets the air flowing through as well. And now the quick warmup is braying like a donkey with the lips. Sorry, I know this sounds very silly. I’ve got, I’ve actually got a podcast episode all about this, which is kind of embarrassing, but this is what you do to all and warm up your voice. Anybody out there who’s doing public speaking and not warming up, it’s the equivalent of, you know, diving in for a swimming race or running out onto a footie failed without doing any stretching or warming up, you’re not going to perform your best. And when people say, Oh, I take a bit of time to get into presentations, it’s often because they’re not doing in warmed up.
Victor Ahipene: Hmm. And I think, I think there’s some big ramifications. My voice is sounding horrible at the moment cause I’ve got a cough but not that I saying it, which is a pretty good side note actually is once, and you really realize this is the more speaking you do in particularly podcasting is you will hate the sound of your own voice regardless of how good you get it to sound. Particularly when you’re starting out, you’re like, Oh my God, is that how I sound? Oh my God, that is, that is horrible. And I’ve helped a lot of people with podcasting as well, and they’re all the same. Like, Oh my God, I feel this and that. It doesn’t mean that that’s how other people will try you. It’s just you often cringe at hearing yourself. But, um, that, that being said, yeah, I think there’s a lot of ramifications as well with that.
Victor Ahipene: Not warming up before you go out to speak. As you get that shallow breathing, guess what? It’s going to dry out your mouth. And then you’ve got those lips that are going into the microphone and you can’t not necessarily announce the eight your words or get them out there. It’s, you know, your mouth is dry, your lips are dry, which obviously stress EDS to further, and then you’re stopping halfway through your presentation because you need that drink of water because there’s no way that you could’ve made it 15 minutes in the real world, not onstage without having that drink of water. And, um, and then you end up straining. Yeah. You, you ended up getting hoarse by the end of your presentation that you see a lot of people because it’s a big room and they’re trying to get the voice out there to the, to the masses and all of a sudden, you know, they haven’t had everything warmed up or the, like you said, the breathing too shallow so they haven’t got the air and they’re not using their diaphragm to push their voice out and all of these sorts of things. So I mean, I think it’s, it’s, it’s really, really important because it’s one of those invisible ROI wise with your presentation that you never say, wow, I saw Sally on stage and she had such a great voice. It’s like she, she had a, occasionally you’re going to say, Oh, that person had a really cool voice. But the majority I will, I think of of great presenters. It’s, yeah, they’ve got this great presentation, they’ve got great body language they’ve got right, and everyone just walks off and go, that person was a great presenter.
Sally Prosser: Yeah. And you’re talking about presenters here, but a lot of the work that I do with people is they just in normal professions where they’ve got a lot of stress on their voice. You know, so a teacher is a good example. If you’re not using good technique in front of the classroom, by the time you get to Friday or the end of term, you could do some serious damage. Or even people who are facilitating workshops. If you’re talking nonstop every day, then that’s when you can put strain. If you’re not, if you don’t do things right. In my experience, people who are professionally public speaking, they tend to have some good techniques that they use. And it’s often one of the better term, regular people who don’t think that they need to use their voice so much. They’re the ones who could benefit most from a bit of TLC.
Victor Ahipene: Yeah. And I think that’s, um, yeah, it’s, it’s very, very important from a, uh, say someone who’s, you know, speaking in the board room or delivering a presentation to their company or know whatever they kind of everyday person. What are some of the things you, are there certain things you see people once they start learning these things, maybe try and overcompensate. I you were saying earlier when the certain people over pronounciate words that wouldn’t necessarily come off your tongue is, um, are there, are there other things along that like, you know, inflection at the wrong times or, uh, too long, a pause to shorter falls. Anything else throughout that, that kind of, I think a voice is, it’s the verbal but also the nonverbal use of the voice. Yeah. The pause is using your voice to add to it, but um, yeah. From, from your side of things, what are some of the things I throw out that praise?
Victor Ahipene: You’ve warmed up your voice. You’re out on the stage now. Um, yeah. How do you, you know, you’re nervous. There are a lot of, I’m sure a lot of your students are still, yeah. They still got that gap. Reaching nerves. Some of them, when they’re stepping out there, how do they, I guess remember, Oh God, I’ve got to breathe through my stomach. Um, I’ve got to do this. I’ve got to do this. Uh, what are some of the things that you kind of work on throughout that presentation? The actual giving of the presentation for them to nail it.
Sally Prosser: Yeah, we arrived the keys in the preparation and if you practice all the techniques beforehand, I say you practice training in pace time so you can draw on it in wartime because there’s times when you’re really, really nervous that’s you need to have things just there ready to go. And that’s when the training comes into play. And while you’re on stage, I always just go back to the body and the breath, you know, take that deep breath. If you feel your legs shaking or your arms shaking, just tense it. Tensing and releasing will help there. And smiling, breathing and smiling can often get things centered again so you can continue. And you were talking earlier about in the board room, different things that I’ve seen people do. You know, trying too hard. I see some people, especially women, push their voice to the back of their throat because we’re told we have to sound lower, right?
Sally Prosser: Lower lower pitched is better, a lower pitched voice is good and that’s true. But to make the voice sound low, we want it to be in the walls of our chest. So if you’ve seen the Wolf of wall street, that’s scene with Matthew McConaughey is laid out as a Capri, right? That’s what we want. We want it down there in the walls of the chest. The mistake a lot of people make is they push it to the back of their throat. So you end up getting this very pompous, self-important kind of voice. And I’m so important because I’m at the board table. And the problem with that is, yeah, you love because that voice sounds very fake and very put on. And when people are trying to stake with credibility, it can backfire
Victor Ahipene: and so good for people cause they’re obviously going to be hearing this. If you were to give an example of say that that Becca throat, what she just did versus say something deeper down throughout the chase, what would they kind of sound like for people out there?
Sally Prosser: Yeah, so it’s all, it’s, it’s different by the brain. So it’s a bit, you’ve got to visualize where the sound’s going. So rather than swallowing it back down, he the back of the throat, think like you’re doing a very posh kind of queen accent. Instead of that we want it to vibrate and I’m talking about the sound waves down in the walls of our chest. And so when an exercise you can do is just put the Palm of your hand on your chest and as you say the just try it. Ah, you got to visualize that your voice is not at the back of the throat but somewhere out in the distance. So whether you visualize a horizon or a Frisbee or a space flight, I don’t know anything that’s out there. And then you say, ah, good morning, your voice is very forward and free as opposed to good morning where the voice sits back there.
Victor Ahipene: Mm. I think Penn, Alberta here that obviously with those drills of being able to, um, you know, cause you are demonstrating a beautifully with your hands on this, um, on the audio but, but uh, I think being able to hear that and you know, Ben, those droves have been able to go down and put your hands on your chest and fill those vibrations and being able to actually hear that orderable difference on what it sounds like. Yeah. They’re both deeper voices. Um, but one sounds ridiculous and the nicest possible way and the other one sounds natural and I’m not sitting there going like, yeah, I I remember back at school, there was a couple of friends that I did public speaking with and I used to be like, why do you have a fake voice when you, and like it wasn’t like, it sounded terrible, but it was like if you spoke how you naturally speak. Yeah. With obviously a few, few deviations for when you’re actually giving the presentation. And it sounded really good but it sounded fake and uh, yeah, people were just going to switch off cause it doesn’t sound .
Sally Prosser: I know and I work with a lot of reporters and it’s a cycle of the reporter satire voice. They’ll often just speak normally to me like this and then say police say investigations are ongoing. And I’m like, no, no, no. We’ve got to have a forward police. They investigations are ongoing, you know, and so you can still sound very serious and credible. This is part of the reason why people are losing trust in the news I think.
Victor Ahipene: Yeah, I think 100% and um, it’s a, it’s a really good point. I think that’s a really good example because regardless, most people see the news wherever they are in the world and it’s not an unusual thing. Yeah. You can watch the, the base. Yeah. The ones who are, I don’t know, good morning USA or the, you know, the biggest news branches versus maybe your regional one or, yeah, just the person who, you know, like, Oh, that person doesn’t vibe with me for some reason like yours. I was throwing Wally under the bus and the guy I referenced earlier, he’s a, he’s a sporting great. Who is,
Sally Prosser: did he say anything about, well
Victor Ahipene: great, but um, yeah, even my girlfriend sitting there going, what he doing on TV? Cause he, yeah, he does. He never sounds natural, like anything that’s coming naturally out. Unless they’re talking to him about rugby league and it’s not off the teleprompter then he sounds like a normal human being that you can relate to. And I think it’s a very, very, it’s a very good on him for going out there and then doing that. But it’s a very important aspect and the difference of, I think in my, my personal opinion is the trust. Like I don’t, I don’t think of them as untrustworthy, but I just switch off with his message that he’s delivering because of his voice. 100%
Sally Prosser: yeah. Because he’s, he clearly sounds like he’s reading the words, not telling the story and you know, we’re very attuned. Even if we don’t know the technical reasons behind it, we’re very, very attuned to a genuine sounding voice. And that’s why we want the vibrations to be forward, not hidden at the back. We want the phrasing to be natural. We want variation as well, which is something we haven’t really talked about. But vocal variation is one of the main things more presenters could do with a, and that’s, we also want to voice where the breath flows freely out. And so to demonstrate that, hopefully my voice is doing that now. But you’ll hear some voices which are very restricted like this and the air, they actually holding their breath while they’re talking.
Victor Ahipene: Hmm. And they, yeah. If you were to put it into a sentence, I tend to find that the end of the voice know with inclination just that’s dropping off. The closer it gets to the full stop because they run out of air, they like . They don’t pause for say that hypothetical, calmer. And if it’s a hypothetical comma, but that comma, they would otherwise sit in the sentence they have that comma that otherwise sits in the sentence.
Sally Prosser: Yeah, absolutely. And what’s also interesting is often it’s not enough egg getting in. It’s a restriction in the throat, not letting the air go out. So it’s almost like it’s the body holding it in going, I’ve got to save some for later. And we know this is true because when we get home after a long day or a long week, we’ll sigh, we’ll go, Oh, you know, I finally letting the muscles of the throat open up and let that voice go. And that’s why it’s really one of the good exercises you can do is just a side. Have a nice big sigh. Ah, ah, and
Victor Ahipene: last, last thing I wanted to touch on, what you just brought up was kind of that vocal intonation throughout presentations. Where do you feel, not just presenters on TV, but you know, people presenting in general, um, can improve in that aspect. Like, you know, what are they tending to do wrong? What’s the, the kind of 80, 20 of that?
Sally Prosser: Oh, there’s so many things that we could talk about. Uh, so bad vocal variation is a good one. I talk about avoiding the vocal flat line. So if you imagine a very bit of a sad image in a way, but you know the flat line on the heart monitor, and that’s what we’re doing to our audience. If we don’t change things around, and there’s three things you want to change, you want to change up the pitch. We want to change up the pace and we want to change up the volume of our voice. So with the pitch that’s the most talked about. One, if we sound the same pitch, no matter if we go louder or if we go go faster or if we go slower, if we just stay on this one pitch, our brain is going to fall asleep. This is why people are meditation tapes have a monotone because we actually feel like going to sleep.
Sally Prosser: It’s a good tip though, for anyone who’s got children out there, you want them to go to sleep when you read them their bedtime story. Don’t read with too much animation. If you goes straight into a monotone, they’ll be more likely to go to sleep and with pitch, you don’t need to be getting out there and singing. DOE Ray, me, everyone should just aim to be able to go up and be able to go down. And if you can go up and go down and be able to vary that through your presentation, that will be a big start. Uh, the next one is pace. So you’ll find that you’re more likely to speak too fast. That’s me. Oh, more likely to speak too slowly. So identify what your default is and then try to mix, mix it up. And it allows of course, volume volume I be careful with because you don’t want to go soft unless you know you’ve got the attention of the whole room. So going softer is one of the things that more of my professional speakers will do. You know, when they’ve got a microphone, they’ve got a whole audience and they’ve got that, that option to go down here so people can really listen to what they’re going to say. But you don’t want to do that if, if people can’t eat to begin with.
Victor Ahipene: Yeah. And I heard something really interesting, even from the professional speaking side of things is understanding or respecting that audiences kind of nervous system in that like that lower pitched voices obviously as often something that’s more intense or something that’s more personal and people can’t maintain that anxiousness of, of what it is from an emotional level for 30 minutes. So you have to take them and again, like you talk about it gets, it gets people’s engagement, but it might be slower and quieter and then a bit louder and faster and then people are like, Oh, okay, cool. Oh, there’s a bit of humor and yeah, this is going on a bit of a tangent from, from there. But I think, yeah, it doesn’t matter even if it’s in a board room. Yeah. You obviously still want people to, to listen. Um, and you can use it effectively and there, but yeah. That, that uh, people’s emotions be held on edge for, for long, long periods.
Sally Prosser: That’s right. And it’s not about having a low voice or a loud voice or a slow voice. It’s about having a voice that has range. There is no fast without the slow. There is no, the low doesn’t have the impact if you don’t have the high, it’s all in. The contrast is the ability to keep people on the edge of their seat and keep people guessing. Most people will go to a room and they’ll sit down and somebody will bring up the PowerPoint and they straight away switched off because they know what to expect and know what to expect to the presenters. So one of the best things you can do is just keep its people guessing.
Victor Ahipene: Hmm. Keep changing it out and there we go. It’s a, it’s the most powerful thing I like I say all of these are so important and presenting. Yeah. Your audience don’t necessarily put their finger on it until it’s bad. Until it’s bad. You never have a person go, you never, or I shouldn’t say never, but more often than not, you’re not walking out of a presentation and saying, wow, that person had great voice, vocal variation and great pausing. But you go, man, that person was monotone.
Sally Prosser: Ben, that person spoke. You don’t come out and say, wow, they, they they use of rising and falling inflections unless you make, yeah,
Victor Ahipene: exactly. It’s why I say more often than not, your audience, your audience doesn’t go into that.
Sally Prosser: If you learn how to do it, it’s, it’s absolutely a skill that you can learn and practice and master. So once you can, it’s like the dark arts. People don’t even really know why they like hearing what you’ve got to say, but they do. Yeah.
Victor Ahipene: And often do. You can disguise what you’re actually saying with just it sounding super intimidating.
Sally Prosser: Oh, Victor, yes. I’ve got away with not knowing what I’ve been talking about just because I have such an articulate voice. There’s been times that I’ve said, that’s a very, very good question. Thank you for asking. I’d love to look into it and get back to you. Sounds good. And in my mind I’m going, Oh, no, ID.
Victor Ahipene: Well with all of that being said, I think hopefully people can now go out there and see the value of what your voice can do to a presentation. So I appreciate you coming on and sharing it. If people want to jump over and find out their one minute, uh, that one minute warm up that they can do and hopefully get into on a daily basis because we know you need to practice to actually get out on the court and play, uh, and if you want to play effectively. So I, you want to do that again? Where can they go and what can they do?
Sally Prosser: Hey, it’s my website. It’s www dot Sally ProSight, S A L L Y P R O, double S E R.com Dot A U.
Victor Ahipene: Brilliant. Well, if there isn’t sit in a bit of voice, I don’t know what is, appreciate your time and I look forward to, yeah, we just found out they were down the road from each other. I look forward to catching up in person and a take again, hopefully seeing what magic happens.
Sally Prosser: Absolutely. Sounds great.